Curse

Zui · May 18, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Weeping, VIM is just like IWAY. It rolls bad teams, and is very noob friendly, probably even more so than IWAY is.

Iway has several options against VIM.

Everyone attacks their number(with wands/bows). Inturupting a good deal of your traps. Also keeping QZ down with ranged attacks.

Meteor Shower. only lasts for 9 seconds, but hey it keeps you from trapping during that time, or forces you to move.

Pets. They can and will send in the pets to trigger traps. This also let them use the "I Will Avenge You!" shout.

Healing Seed.

Martyr. VIM heal you say? Too bad, you're lacking conditions on foes.

Edge of Extinction. Edge bomb ftw.

Basicaly it's going to be a slow and painful loss against IWAY, but they should win if they're compitent.

It's not about damage, it's about dismantling your ability to heal and do damage, then slowly killing you.

This same general tactic can be employed by and balanced team, but with far better results(you loose faster).

As long as they don't let you bodyblock anyone, you can't win. Remember they can just run away when you set traps, and repeat this in a circular fashion on any anhilation map. On relic runs you'll be trapping the relic/steps, all they have to do is get one relic, just send in someone to suecide, have someone else pick up the relic and get out, res the dead guy. They can easily kill your runners on relic runs(or should be able to). Altar maps, you'll be bound the altar pretty much, you cap before them, you're stuck there. They cap before you a healing seed rotation makes it impossible for you to win.

VIMWAY, and FLAREWAY, probably all got that "way" added after them because they are all noob-friendly builds that roll bad teams, and are designed for fame farming only, not actualy winning in the Hall of Heroes.

The Herbalizer · May 18, 2006, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weeping Wind

IWAY beat ViM? I am sorry but thats plain stupid. IWAY HAS to come up to a ViM Ball. The taints MS isnt going to affect it like I have already said. And IWAY sending in 4 pets on 4 different trappers isnt going to work. IWAY will NEVER out heal 6+ Traps once they run in. And your Vampiric Short Bows are NEVER going to even come close to even out damaging 1 Healing Spring. And a Balled ViM never sits in the same place for long. They'll pick a target and attempt to bodyblock him or just trap him. And besides, what IWAY group is ever smart enough to stand there a be patient. If they where patient they wouldnt play IWAY and would get Fame a more challenging way. ViM against IWAY.. I'd dare go as far and say ViM owns IWAY but that sounds stupid.
Weeping

claiming iway cannot beat vim is just plain rediculous. i have been in many iway teams which have rolled vim teams with ease. your statement reaks of ignorance. do i claim iway is amazing? no i hate it but it has and will beat vim. will vim beat iway? yes of couse it will, no build is undeaftable. and yeah what you are saying does sound stupid. dont claim your build is undeaftable by iway when i have witnessed many times vim teams losing.

Draeco_Smash · May 18, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

I have to say that ViM is pretty effective against Iway or even most balanced groups... but it's got nothing on a good spike or an e-surge group. Again it all comes down to the team's skill,
IMHO, Group build is only 30% of the battle, you can take a bunch of players that have been playing with each other for a while, and just the fact that they understand how each other plays, means that they are going to roll most teams, Iway, Vim, Spike or what have you....

Fury Eye · May 19, 2006, 01:35 AM // 01:35

i run Vim with the same group everytime and we are yet to fight a group that can break are "ball" because we teamspeak and use 2 warrior rangers with disrupts sever artery and apply poisen to take out those stupid martyrs and restore conditions but also can run 8 warrior rangers all with apply, sever, gash, VIM, rez and disrupts,sprint and we all take a different guy and 7 degen on all monks makes it very hard for them to heal thier team while they have to heal thierself!

JR · May 19, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Ahhh, I remember back in the day when Dust Trap was bugged to do quad damage. Rolled Marvel Superheroes in 2 minutes, held halls for 5 rounds. It took chained Meteor Showers and Putrid Spike to get us off the altar... No fancy crap either, just 8 resolve trappers with Healing Spring.

We tried it again afterwards, but it was never the same.

As it is, I pretty much agree with Zui. ViMway is a fairly bad build, just easy to set up and run.

madman420 · May 22, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Does anybody actually win with vimway?!!! To say that it's just another iway is giving it way too much credit. Everytime i have encountered a vimway team has just been a total annihilation on my part. It seems to be an awful attempt to recreate the success of iway with tragic results. This build will be unheard of in 2 months tops.

Divineshadows · May 23, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weeping Wind

At the MOST your MS is going to break 100 (If that) every 2 or 3 seconds. You have 5 Healing Springs going on a ViM Ball. Thats 315 HP every 2 seconds. My ViM team didnt ever cast Healing Spring at the same time. Its much better to get 1 second between each to get a constant +63 HP going. Thats your MS countered. Lastly, an Earthquake + Aftershock is not going to call and end to that. Even with your Earth Ele seeded you aint going to remove all his condtions before the trappers hit ViM. You will have 2 W/Me's sitting on your Bonder, RC Prot whatever monk(s) you dicide to take. As soon as the first Trap round goes off the W/Me will blackout your RC. That gives enough time for VIM to be pulled off.

Blackout costs 10 energy. Warriors have 2 pips of energy regen. Not going to keep a restore condition monk blackout locked for very long with that math. Healing spring has a 20 second recharge and is easily interrupted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weeping Wind

So, you have just spreadout. In my experience you shouldnt ever over extend on your monks in PvP. But lets say you dont need to he healed at this particular moment. What do you hope to do now? The ViM is sitting in its ball with you all surrounding it. I dont know how you plan to any decent ammount of damage. Even with the above Ele combo I just explained how we out heal that. And dont forget, you have 2 W/Me's sitting on your backs while you try to circle the ViM Ball aswell.

What eles? The damage from my teams comes from 2 warriors and 2 mesmers and one other (which is almost never an elementalist). This is more than enough damage on an adrenal spike to spike down a target in between healing spring pulses. The key is that the spike is only executed once the warriors are clean (free from blind) which is not that hard to accomplish with so many traps being interrupted by wands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weeping Wind

Everyone on your team hits a different person! So you have just over extended from your monks and now you are trying to kill an 8 man team by wanding them! In my groups I am told to follow calls and hit the one target as hard as you can. 8 people wanding/attacking 8 different targets ISNT going to get you anywhere. And dont forget the 315 HP every 2 seconds. I dont see how you can out wand that.

No overextension of the party from the monks occurs, because the monks are right up there as part of the wanding party. No traps = no conditions and no healing. When an adrenal spike is called, everyone on the team except for the 3 monks attacks the called target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weeping Wind

How do you plan to remove condtions while having 1 - 2 warriors aggresivly Black you out? Ive yet to EVER meet a group in HA that carrys more then 1 Condtion remover. Most groups like to have a pure WoH, SB/Infuse, RC/Prot. Usually if your WoH is taking 5 - 10 Att points in Prot he isnt going to heal effectivly.

Only having condition removal on the protection monk is insane and is the mark of a poorly designed group build. So you only ever face bad teams in HA? Wow, your team must never lose then. Wait a minute...you said you have never won halls with a VIM build. Again with these warriors that agressively blackout. Check the energy cost, recharge, and duration on blackout again and then compare it to the warrior's meager energy pool and regen ability to see how foolish this is. It is even worse if these W/Me actually hope to use adrenal skills.

You do not need any points in prot to make mend condition useful on a off monk (divine favor still counts) and anyone on the team that can fuel the energy for it can carry extinguish which is an awesome spell. For mend condition, any spare points leftover (usually 2 or 3) get thrown into protection prayers.

JR · May 23, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

You do not need any points in prot to make mend condition useful on a off monk (divine favor still counts) and anyone on the team that can fuel the energy for it can carry extinguish which is an awesome spell. For mend condition, any spare points leftover (usually 2 or 3) get thrown into protection prayers.

Or indeed Draw Conditions on an off-monk, an even better alternative in my opinion.

caffine addict · May 23, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

VIM is a easy pug unranked team that can beat unranked IWAY. If you have a decent rank don't bother trying it. I've made it to hoh a few time's but this build can't really win there. I've beating IWAY, Blood Spike, R-spike, Balanced with this build. But i have also been beatin by the same teams if they are well organized, and or Ranked. However, Smite teams always beat this build every time.